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Posted: 07/18/08 10:23 PM
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I know you guys must think I'm ridiculous for having a front wheel drive car to begin with. I'm sorry but I really don't have the money to find myself a suitable rear wheel drive car yet. Anyways, I found myself a nice 4th gen prelude that has a F22 engine. I'm hoping some of you pros here can answer a little question I have. I'm hoping to swap that F22 out and putting in a H22A1. The car already has a 5 speed manual transmission. So my question is, if it already has a 5 speed manual transmission, is it necessary to change it to a transmission to match the H22A1? Or does the F22 transmission work fine with the H22? Please help. Thanks.
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Posted: 07/18/08 11:08 PM
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talk to k20z3. hws our forum honda guy. he'll be able to answer those qs for you. dont feel bad about a fwd, alot of us have fwd.
the godfather has spoken
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K20Z3
Guru
| Posts: 864
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 07/19/08 07:32 AM
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Thanks godfather. I feel so special now
It's been done many times. It is essentially a perfect fit from the testimonials of people who have done the swap. I've never seen such a swap in person but it makes sense that a 2.2L Honda motor would match up to the tranny of another 2.2L Honda motor. Just make sure you get the F22 tranny from an AP2 S2000 (the 2nd generation). The AP1 suffered from substantial synchronizer issues. The AP2 tranny on the other hand is reputed in the Honda world as the god of all trannys. Honda's engineers re-created the synchros using carbon. Absolute bullet proof transmission. Don't feel bad about having a FWD car. It isn't the best platform, but with the proper mods all of that under steer can be eliminated, and it is 100% track usable.
PS- I drive a 2007 Honda Civic Si and front camber bolts, and a rear sway bar were the best mod for eliminating under steer.
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Posted: 07/19/08 03:02 PM
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With me that makes 4 with Front wheel drive cars, so don't feel bad.
FWD does have some merit over RWD, such as the inability to oversteer, it takes some real talent to spin out in a FWD car. The only area FWD is at a true disadvantage in is launching.
About the transmission: k20 probably gave you the best answer you can find on this forum (he's the honda guy). Find some honda specific forums and post there, it's best to get an answer from a few different sources, and a prelude-specific forum would have tons more info (maybe even a how-to guide).
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Posted: 07/20/08 02:10 PM
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Well lets not forget the whole handling thing either, FWD cars are at an inherent disadvantage there from having all there weight up front.
The optimum placing for all the weight is in the middle of a car, so it has closest to nuetral balance.
I dont think I have to tell anyone on here, where the majority of the weight of my car lies.
Think of it this way, if your car was balancing on a wedge, the car with its weight in the middle would stay balanced, the FWD front heavy car would fall off the imaginary wedge.
Also cars with more of there weight in the rear or middle, can better distribute there cars weight in braking conditions, so that alot of the cars braking is still done by its rear tires. On a FWD car, the rear tires do little of the braking since little weight rests on it, which is why so many FWD cars have drum rear brakes.
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Posted: 07/20/08 03:28 PM
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in the back of the car. you have no steerin control. you have no weight on the steerin wheels. ff cars handle ten times better than a rr car. the best way is an mr. not mr2. like lamborginis and ferreris adn the ford gt. i would rather have a ff or fr than a rr.
if you dont know what im talkin about. fr- front engine, rwd ff- front engine. fwd mr- mid engine, rwd rr- rear engine, rwd
and actually the best is ma- mid engine, awd. mid engine you sit just behind the front wheels.
the godfather has spoken
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Posted: 07/20/08 04:41 PM
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Having an engine farther back isn't always ideal, when the first rear-engined and mid-engined cars came out in racing they were considered deathtraps, in an interview on discovery I remember a retired driver saying that other drivers called him "fucking insane" for driving an mr car.
Having weight in the front makes it harder to oversteer, it also helps make it easier to control the car during a slide. Driving in rain or dirt is suicide in anything mid or rear engined.
If front-engined cars handled poorly then why are ALL of the competitive rally-cars front engined? Front-engined vehicles are more forgiving in varying conditions.
Our cars arent balancing on a wedge, who cares if a front engined car would fall off a wedge, thats a scenario that in no-way applies to performance.
FF cars handle fine, in most it is impossible to shake the tail loose and spin the car out of control, You can step on the throttle earlier in a turn without having to worry about the rear wheels slipping out form behind.
FF VS AWD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzB6C1MquLI
In addition eurotuner raced a FF gti vs an AWD R32 and determined that the FF handled better.
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K20Z3
Guru
| Posts: 864
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 07/20/08 06:37 PM
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^ Well the FF GTI was modified and the R32 has the worst AWD system ever engineered. Personally I believe it is more of a drivers preference that anything. I like my FF set up because I can jump on the throttle much earlier than a FR or MR while coming out of a corner. However, someone who prefers less braking into the corner and coming into it quicker/getting on the throttle much later would prefer a FR or MR.
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Posted: 07/20/08 07:37 PM
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Actually they agreed that the stock GTI handled best (there was a stock gti, a modified, and an r32). The modified gti had a poor tire setup, so it outran the r32 on the straights but lost to the stock golf on the corners.
The R32 AWD system itself isn't to bad (not the best mind you), the main problem is the weight of the VR6 and front suspension/brakes limit the turn-in.
eurotuner aside I agree with k20, it's all drivers preference (outside of drifting and drag).
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K20Z3
Guru
| Posts: 864
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 07/21/08 11:10 AM
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The weird thing about the R32's drive train is that it is biased to the front wheels, which is very unconventional for an all wheel set up.
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And0603
New User
| Posts: 6
| Joined: 11/07
Posted: 08/14/08 03:54 PM
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yes it will work and u wil be pleased with it u will have to make a new bracket for the drivers side axle though other than that u will be fine with the swap
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Posted: 08/14/08 08:32 PM
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Rally is an entirely different sport where there is racing on loose gravel, dirt, snow and ice. You can not possibly get a rally car up to as high of speeds as race cars on a track, as you can on dirt snow or ice. You can not compare a rally car to something built for highspeeds around turns on smooth surfaces. Thats where MidRear cars excel the most.
The MR2 has won the most JGTC 300's, of any nameplate in that entire racing sport.
Also, an AWD Rally car is going to have more of its weight evenly distributed thanks to having a drive shaft and rear differential, than a FWD Frontengined car ever would.
Having weight in the front make its MORE prone to oversteer. Not harder, more likely to.
RR is not nearly as bad a setup as FF. Porsche puts up a lot of RR 911's to race in Le Mans and have been doing so for years. To say RR is poor handling, is to completely ignore all of the 911's acomplishments over the years.
Dont beleive me? Watch this video on the matter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV18ZBXwwYM
In a FWD car, you have to take turns a lot slower than a MR car does, as your being pulled around the turn, your weight is not in the middle and therefore have worse handling characteristics, than a car with most of its weight in the middle, being pushed around a turn.
I think you will often find the fastest track cars are all Mid Rear, the Saleen S7, the Ferrari F40/F50, and of course, the MR2.
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Posted: 08/15/08 10:17 PM
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the porches in lemans are awd. cars like your mr2 have understeer cause there is no weight in the front. i would rather have a ff than a rr for cornering, drag, and speed.
the godfather has spoken
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Posted: 08/16/08 06:56 AM
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Having less weight in the front is not a disadvantage in racing.
Infact, the MR2 designers more then compensated for this by putting narrower tires in the front than the rear, to account for having the weight of the car in the middle than up front. This makes the car handle just the same if not better, than a FWD car with the same sized tires.
my car is Mid Rear, not Rear Rear. Not all Porsche 911's are AWD, the Porsche GT3 which competes in Le Mans, is RR, not AWD.
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Posted: 08/16/08 03:08 PM
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does you engine sit ontop of the wheels in the rear or in front of the rear wheels. is it a ff engine in the back of the car or does the engine go from the middle to the back like a fr. its a rr not a mr. i know its called a mr2, but it doesnt mean its a mr.
ya they really composated for the wieght loss up front buy cuttin more weight. thats so smart. your car has the weght distribution of a ff in reverse.
if you still think your car is mr than compare ti with a real mr. almost any kind of ferrari, all lambos. trust me your engine nowhere resembles that style of drive.
the godfather has spoken
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