i wonder... about muscle cars

i was looking around the net and iv been considering different ideas. how good of a racing platform are manual 5 speed v6 mustangs or firebirds ? or should u get the v8 for more power? and would a mid gen ( like 91 ) mustang 4 cyl be a good platform? there was one down the road for sale one time n i rly liked it. im just being curious. being rwd i would think that they would be. but iv pretty much never seen them tuned. its either the v8's and theyre used for drag racing...  
...rawr

The chassis of the V6 mustang and the V8 is the same so you could place the suspension upgrade from Roush and increase the feel of the car during turns and not boggle around and fall off the road. There is also a supercharger for the V6 so that'll cover your power issue. There is a formula for calibrating force inducted systems to what they should be (since companies pussie out to the lawers and insurance companies) and that should also give you the feeling of getting a car that came supercharged from the factory and not a bolt-on.
       The 4 cylinder mustang was a catastrophic failure and Ford never planned it so it's botched. Sure you could spend every weekend trying to fix ever loose bolt and clearances, but its a Fox body and those suck beyond comparison. If you do get a V8 from that era consider this...

*Focus your task on the Air-flow part of the equation. Throttle bodies (fuel injected), Intake manifold, Heads and Valve Jobs.
*They aren't balanced (as in weight wise) buy a forged crank, shot peen and balance the piston rods.
*Pick the head that has the same or is in the ballpark in CC's in the quench area. It'll keep you from having to put race gas instead of premium and if you're really into it get one that is CNC machined.
*Since almost all Domestic V8's have a long stroke they work better with force inducted systems, so don't go like the old people and hurt your engine deliberately and go for pure 10,000 RPM N/A power.  

I recommend the V6 mustang (95+). They're cheap, and all you'll have to do is a simple rebuild (ask for a re-ring kit), find dished pistons if any, and go nilly willy on suspension upgrades. For the supercharger up the boost to calibrate it with your engine, retard the spark timing a bit, and get colder spark-plugs. You only increase the fuel amount when you're really pushing the boost. You could also get your existing ECU and take it to a reputable tuning company and get it to run with the supercharger. Just tell them what you're running so there aren't any sad memories...

In the end you'll spend about 7-10 grand including car, but that's a bargain really and if you're budget is flexible you'll still be able to get a nice set of rims and tires (I swear to god if you get Dubs I'll beat you down with your own shoe... )

--Moderation is the key to victory--

--That and Hot Pockets--  
Moderation wins

ah dude you are at import tuner.com. you know a magezine about tuners. well v8's have never been part of the import tuner scene. you are in the completely wrong place. and screw drag racing. get a tuner and road race that *** thats what they are made for. not drag racing  

The problem with mustangs is that their big and heavy compared to most tuners. The V8 makes up for this by providing enough power to haul that weight around but a 4cyl wouldn't have enough pull to haul a mustang around the way it could a 240 or Subaru.

I think a v6 is doable, theirs probably a small dedicated pocket of v6 tuners out there.  

well i was mainly asking about the v6's and 4 cyls for a tuner. since they come in a v8... but ya it is. but strickly tuners also get boring.... same ole - same ole  
...rawr

Tuner hmmm... That name gets thrown about too much lately. Any car can be tuned; its just a matter of how much money? If the car's cheap and can be upgraded then why shouldn't he? Scenes and group affiliations are better left in High school. If you want to label well:

*Muscle car guys get the biggest carburetor they can find and don't calibrate for fuel consumption. They worry more about compression ratios than camshaft ones. Basically just getting what they bought or thought was best to buy.

*Tuner Scene guys just get the loudest muffler they can find and a body kit to go with it then the put a giant sticker of their favorite comic book character and Dubs to finish it off.

Both horrible examples, both totally wrong views of how a tunable car should be... Tuner cars are disappearing the same way as the Fohawk and not even the Fat and the Furious can save it this time... Gas prices killed the muscle car again.  All that is left to answer is... Are you in a scene with car shows and fake talent? or are you in a delusional state of power?  


If you see a guy in a raggedy 80's Camaro don't look down at him. Same goes the other way with him frowning upon your rattling body kit. It's his P.O.S. and that's your P.O.S. Let it be.....  
Moderation wins

"It's his P.O.S. and that's your P.O.S. Let it be....."

I like that lol. I agree there is a big split between the tuner scene and the old school v8 guys.  Me personally i think that as long as you can make a car go fast, it shouldnt matter.  People tune various cars for dif reasons, and for dif gains.  I actually had a beat to *** 80's camaro at one point, but i had rebuilt the motor and everything from ground up, and shed alot of blood doing so.  But now seeing as gas is in the 4$ a gallon range, im glad i made the shift to imports.  Altho thanks to a stupid mistake the choice was kinda made for me.  Anyone in my eyes can be considered a tuner as long as they are modding theyre car to make it better than stock, and are doing (at least the majority) of the wrench work themselves. Cuz after all, isnt "other than stock" that tuning is all about?  
91 MR-2 Turbo 5-spd
BBS lightweight wheels with Goodyear F1 rubber
Tit-alum A arms with Koni adj. coilovers
Rotura big brake kit in front

But isn't the ultimate goal Driving Feel? Your car is called the poor mans ferrari not because its Mid Engine Rear Wheel Drive, but because if you had no knowledge of badge or make; you'd swear on your mother that Ferrari made an entry lever car... And if you upgraded it some more you'd swear on someone's mother THAT WAS A FERRARI!!!

Getting that driving feeling is what tuni.... hell upgrading is all about... Just being bored one day and yanking the wheel on a sharp turn while having a maniacal grin on your face as rubber disappears into oblivion and some more at every following turn all the while you listen to the engine screaming of pure madness... Then wondering how you pulled it off....(and how much a set of new tires costs)..........

If a car can provide that then it shouldn't matter what make it is...  
Moderation wins

man i think we have the next asistotle (sp?).  you an english major or something? lol. I actually just got the MR2 today. Traded my 86 Supra turbo for it.  Was getting bored going in a straight line and sideways thru corners.  But yes, a drivers feel for his car is the pinnacle of the whole man-machine cliche.  I once saw a cheesy b movie about racing and i took away one decent qoute from it.  "straightaways are for fast cars, corners are for fast drivers."  But anyways, I believe you hit the nail on the proverbial head.  
91 MR-2 Turbo 5-spd
BBS lightweight wheels with Goodyear F1 rubber
Tit-alum A arms with Koni adj. coilovers
Rotura big brake kit in front

Uhm...I kinda failed English class a bunch of times (I'm never going to England   ) It just sort of stuck after a while. Congratulations on your buy though. It is a sweet car to own; I'd do a bunch of upgrades as soon as I got the cash. But yeah, most people forget the main reason motor-sports and sports cars were built in the first place. Not because you wanted to stand out, but because you were bored of driving a Taurus every day back and forth from work, the store, picking up kids at school... Nope not stand out, they existed for this reason, "Sorry kids...You'll have to ask your Mom for a ride to school today. My car only has two seats and the other seat is to hold my sanity while I'm driving...." Then peel away in a fog of burnt smoke as your kids wave frantically "good bye".....(Cuz you know they'll talk about your car in school..."Hey, my daddy owns a badass sportscar and your dad owns a truck!")    

That's why I hate scenes. I didn't buy this car for them! (Flipping those Poser idiots off while your hands moves back and forth) I bought it for me! They hang out at parking lots, drive in restaurants, the movies... And not once do they drive their cars! All night just there looking at what their daddy bought them... And the one time they actually decide drive those things; is to cut you off at the free-way on your way to work. Redlining the *** out of that thing in 3rd..(because its so much louder!      )..... (--[Shaking head in disappointment and asking self why?......................................]--)


Uhm....Who's Aristotle? Who names their kid Aristotle?!  
Moderation wins

lol not a clue.  I heard the name being thrown around alot in philosophy.  but i never actually figured out who he was cuz i was too busy drawing outrageous cars staging at a drag tree lol.  Lol speaking of people with what daddy bought them, I just roasted this kid driving daddy's C6 vette thru the twisties today.  had to do it, specially considering hes cut me off like 6 times while i was driving my pickup daily driver, then afterwards wants to race.  He actually thought i was gonna race my bone stock 05 colorado z71 I5. Against a Vette.  But by the end of a 2 mile country road, i sat and waited for 2 1/2 mins for him to get there. Im loving the car, at the moment its in my shop in the first stage of a MAJOR inspection.  I always check a car for anything possibly broken first, after all stage 1 tuning is maintence!  
91 MR-2 Turbo 5-spd
BBS lightweight wheels with Goodyear F1 rubber
Tit-alum A arms with Koni adj. coilovers
Rotura big brake kit in front

Applause and utmost respect.... You sir are a true example of driving enthusiasm and your  car is a true driver's car, because you're at the helm.

People need to understand that a car is not a representation of your talent, but a medium of such. Getting a vette (which is a pretty competent car) doesn't make you king, neither does a Skyline GT-R... It is the perfect correlation between man and machine that makes even the most basic of sport compact into a Bugatti Veyron, or Aston Martin DB9...

All you need to remember is this:

The size of wallet does not amount to talent.

Pride and Ego are nothing.

Wanting out of your car only hurts it.  

If you upgrade your car. It is not because you're bored of it, but because you want to push yourself and to do that you need parts. You want to see how fast you can go, not the car. How late you can brake, how controlled is your turn (accidental) slide into the bend, how much you can smile before your face breaks...

If you're going to be worried and scared...Don't bother.

If you're going to worry about the other guy...Don't bother.

If you're not going to have a smile on your face don't bother

If you think you're the best...You'll only annoy me on the freeway...(or the movies, or the drive in restaurant, or.....)  
Moderation wins

I agree, but as far as pride goes, i believe there has to be at least some of it.  But not over how much you dumped on the car (daddys 50k on a vette for instance) it has to be about the hours youve put into you car, the lap times (or 1/4 times) and those tenths of a sencond youve shaved off them by burning thru 2 sets of tires, just so when race day arrives, your suspension is perfect.  Pride in the auto world should be about your work ethic, and the fact that you know in your mind that none of the hs kids in their tinted window, bodykit, underglow hondas with the 800+ lb subs knows their ass from their elbow when it comes time to change a head gasket. But then again, thats what daddys checkbook is for.

(I pay for everything myself (house car payment on my colly ins etc etc) and live in a town that is full of 500k+ houses. theres even a 16y0 chick that drives a hot pink H3, with louie vitton interior at a whopping 3 g's a seat. Cant wait till she wraps it round a pole.  But then i guess daddy would just buy her an M3 or something thinking its "safer" cuz its a beemer.  
91 MR-2 Turbo 5-spd
BBS lightweight wheels with Goodyear F1 rubber
Tit-alum A arms with Koni adj. coilovers
Rotura big brake kit in front

haha aristotle was a greek philosopher :P and i wouldnt label him as that. more a socrates is what im thinking. and no im not an english major although i can have quite an eloquent speech when i want to :P but i agree with you guys, its not about whether your car is a camaro or a civic. its how much you put into it. i dont respect a guy who has a 70 cuda or a hot supra if he just bought it from the internet and thought he was cool.  

Definatly a Socrates, he handled ethics.

Plato and Aristotle were more about science and math though they did delve into literature.

Also, Socrates is responsible for irony (unrelated, but a fun fact).

Lastly, I'm in agreement with most of the posts before mine.