|
Num Posts
Sort Order
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 07/10/08 05:35 AM
|
|
As I am sure all of you have experienced, the desire for a true sports car is great. However, usually the price is even greater--and not in the good way. Weither it means coming up with 15k for a decent Supra or RX-7, trying to make 5k to build up a Civic, or anything in between, usually it's pretty hard--expecially when your paychecks aren't something to brag about. With the rising cost of living, the passing of the 4-dollar-per-gallon mark, and the general economical downslide, tuning is looking at recession as well as anyone else. Even if you can afford the car you want, is it truly built solely for performance?
But have you ever asked yourself, "If I were to make a car, it'd be better than that"? Perhaps it was an idle thought after looking at an existing example, perhaps appearance, or maybe suspension placement, or was it a dream?
Why not? Build your own car--the ultimate project car. Follow your own designs, use combined designs from other cars... or follow blueprints.
That's exactly what I did... and am still doing. Obviously, I have quite a ways to go before I can say it is complete, but I really would like to see more home built cars on the road. Face it--when someone asks you what kind of car that is, or where you bought it, there's nothing quite like watching their face when you tell them you built it.
I started with a pile of tubing, like this:
![]()
and have gotten to this:
![]()
![]()
and it's running, while still under 7k (my goal).
You probably are thinking to yourself: "Well, that's easy for you to say. I don't know any of that stuff."
Wrong. When I started the most automotive experience I had was basic maintainance, maybe the occasional tweak, an exhaust here, intake there, etc. I did not know how to weld, I had never worked with electrical wiring, and did not understand camber, caster or toe-in. I learned how to MIG weld on my car, and am going to take classes for TIG. I have had my frame looked over and complimented by professional welders, for those wondering, and I was guided along by a blacksmith for the first few weeks of the build. I designed and built an equal-length header for the car, and will soon TIG up a turbo manifold.
Your donor options are endless. By donor, I mean the car you will be removing the engine, transmission, and various suspension parts from. Some use more donor pieces, others less. The Mazda Miata is a common donor car, along with the Toyota Corolla (or anything with the 4AGE). If you have a little more money, the SR20DET works with slight largening of the frame (although i could probably cram one into a "book" frame). However, there are no limits. There are quite a few guys using 5.0 liter engines, with the occasional rotory, and even an all-electric Seven.
Obviously, my car is based off of the 1960's Lotus Seven and it's decendants, but you are not limited to the Seven. There are guys building Ariel Atom-derived cars, the occasional Lotus 11, and even a few prototypes. I am personally working on a few ideas for a prototype upon completion of this car.
I wish I could copy and paste my entire build log to this link, however it is 9 pages long, with several hundred pictures. Thus, I will have to link it here. I present to you, the Seven GTR:
http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2641
The LocostUSA.com forums have become some of my best sources of information for any form of car modification. Many of the members are well-versed in automotive technology and experience, and there are quite a few engineers, as well as mechanics and other interesting fields. One of the members works in the aerospace industry, and is building the cleanest, most intricate, prototype I have seen yet.
I am more than happy to give out any information, and if you are within 3 hours of me or so (I live in the Cleveland area), I am more than willing to help with a build. Now that I have completed my frame, I think I could have another frame fabbed up within a few weekends, as long as all the supplies are there.
If you don't live near me, I can guarantee there are at least a few others that are in your area.
I am open to comments and questions, my email is in the build log.
|
|
Posted: 07/10/08 07:26 AM
|
|
Although your car is probably faster than mine due to its light weight and bare essentials construction, I can honestly say I didnt pay a high price for my car and its purposefully built for racing from the factory.
I cant build my own car because I am not mechanically inclined enough to do that, so I bought a car that can brake better than a Ferrari 360 Modena in stock form, and gets the same skidpad as a Ferrari F40 all on stock tires/brakes/suspension and ran low 13's before dropping a dime into it (12's is only a few hundred in mods away).
How much did this set me back? $6500 for a car that already ran 12's and performed like a Ferrari in stock form.
You can buy cars specifically built for racing from the factory that are not too expensive, if you know which ones to look for, I prefer a car with an engine in the back.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 07/10/08 09:16 AM
|
|
You could have built it... You really don't require much experience to do so. There are blueprints out there (that's what I started with).
However, mine ISN'T just for racing. As I said, there's obviously more to go--like the skin--but once I complete the bodywork, it will be road legal.
Also, there are plenty of home-built mid-engined cars out there. Check www.grabercars.com He's one of the guys on the LocostUSA forums that's built something along what you described, and if you got a decent donor, you could do the same thing for around 6500, while still retaining legality. There are several people building Atom-based cars as well.
The majority of the builds I have seen have not been racing only, and are going to give obscene numbers for a fraction of what most factory cars will.
|
|
|
K20Z3
Guru
| Posts: 864
| Joined: 09/07
Posted: 07/10/08 12:48 PM
|
|
wow if i had garage space i would consider working on something like this. what motor/engine management are you using?
|
|
Posted: 07/10/08 01:34 PM
|
|
I'd love to built a rotary car, but that'll have to wait until after education.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 07/10/08 01:46 PM
|
|
You don't need much space. Until you actually have it on wheels, you can store the frame sideways, and that won't take up more than 2'x8'x5'. Too bad you are on the other coast; however you are within driving distance from some of the best guys in the business.
I used a Mazda Miata as my donor, from a junkyard. It costed 1350 and that included having it delivered about 40 miles away. Not cheap, but not too bad for a Miata.
Initially, I used the 1994 BP05/1.8l with stock ECU, but eventually I figured out why the car was in the junkyard--a ring was siezed up in cylinder 3. That explained the smoking on start, with the gradual cleaning up--it was starting at 30psi, and once the oil started getting between the ring and the cylinder wall, it'd make around 100-110psi compression. It ran, but not phenomenally--but still quick.
Of course, I was not aware of the problem at the time. With the lack of an A/F gauge, I was thinking it was having a mixture problem. However, constant smoking after a few drives took care of the problem, and I ran a compression test to confirm it.
I have that block completely stripped and the entire engine is sitting in the garage, carefully labelled and boxed. I am waiting on money right not to rebuild it.
Until then, I went out a few weeks ago, picked up a 1996 BP05 sans transmission, and installed that overnight. There were minor complications--the 96 BP05 was the first year it used OBDII, and there are a few sensors that weren't on the original engine. I removed a crank location sensor that was not on the 94, and had to splice some sort of rear temperature sensor in the back, as they used a different connector. I swapped the fuel rail wiring harness, as the 96 had a 4-pin connector, while the 94 surprisingly had a 6-pin connector. Finally, it had apparently gotten some water in the plug holes and even in one of the coil contacts (!), so I had to vacuum the plug tubes out, dry it, and replace the plugs, wires, and dropped in the old coil packs. Once I finished that, it turned over and ran fine. It's been running good since; I've driven it a bit, and have let several other people try it, with no problems so far.
Eventually, I am going to rebuild the old block. As it is going to cost around 2k to get where I want to get, I am going to have to wait a bit, as I am not only financially strapped, but I have other priorities on the car, i.e. forming and installing the skin/bodywork, lighting and gauges, and titling/registering the car. Those are going to take some money, but the old block will be back.
The goal on the old block is anywhere between 225 and 300whp. As it is an old block, along with the factor that the siezed ring was rubbing the cylinder wall, I am going to have it bored 2mm over. I'll be using Wiseco 85mm 8.5-1 pistons with K1/Carrillo rods to keep the compression down while allowing high boost, and am currently looking through the options for the head. 1mm oversized valves is an option, but I don't want to do anything that is going to raise compression. I also don't want to do any excessive modifications that are not going to be worth the money. 250whp is feasable on a stock BP05 block, so building up is usually reserved for 300+ engines. The only purpose for me changing the compression is that I have to re-bore and replace anyway, so might as well do it right.
Once the engine is rebuilt, I am going to scrap the equal-length header I built for the N/A setup, and will build another, this time an equal-length turbo manifold. Due to the tight confinement between the exhaust side and the steering rack, I am going to have the turbo located on the front of the engine, about level with the head. That will allow longer primaries on the manifold, which will cause some lag, but will raise the overall power.
The turbo I have bought for this is a Mitsubishi Super 16G (16G6), and I will have to rotate the compressor housing about 90 degrees, remove the internal wastegate (unless I find a way to fab a new bracket--as the rotation is going to relocate that, I was planning on using that bracket to bolt on a support from the turbo to the engine block, bolting in where the old A/C bracket was), and redesign an exhaust flange. The factory flange for the EVO VIII combines the two ports, whereas I'll have to make a wastegate pipe. I considered allowing the wastegate to vent to atmosphere, but decided I'll re-route it back into the exhaust. There's not going to be much of an exhaust anyway (maybe 2-3 feet of 3" tubing), so I doubt there will be much lost there.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 07/10/08 01:49 PM
|
|
There are some pretty wicked rotary Seven's out there. Think 300hp, 1100lbs. Why wait? Unless you're limited on space, you can complete a frame for around 300 bucks, and depending on the pricing of your donor, you can realistically get most of your car done for around 2000 bucks. That includes custom front suspension, the donor, frame, fuel delivery, and driveshaft. Sadly, I am not a very good collector of receipts, so I don't have an exact price, but I'll have to start listing parts and the costs as I go through the car.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 07/10/08 01:51 PM
|
|
K20Z3: I almost forgot. I am currently using the stock ECU, and I re-wired the entire electrical harness. Once I rebuild the original engine, I will be using a MegaSquirt II.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 08/10/08 04:52 PM
|
|
I've been busy. I went and took Lincoln Electric's Motorsport Welding class to learn a little more about my TIG welder, and basic aluminum technique, as the skin will be made entirely of aluminum. Now that's done, I can start working on the bodywork.
Well, I finished the lighting and switches yesterday. When I rebuilt the wiring harness, I removed all the headlight and other external lighting, because I am not using the stock instrument panel or column. Therefore, any lighting would require seperate wiring.
I reused a lot of the original wire, to save cost, which was practical financially, but took more time digging for the correct color and/or gauge than I would have preferred. Overall, it was not that bad.
I finally got everything wired up, after only one trip to the parts stores, turned the key... and the car turned off. Apparently we ordered the wrong lock from Digikey--it has reversed polarity compared to the regular key/lock--you lock the car off, and unlock it to run--so I can have the key in my pocket while the car is running.
We also noticed that none of the turn signals or brakes were working, although the headlights were.
After checking with a multimeter, we realized that the 30-amp fuse I was using was not getting any power, because it used to go to the accessory function of the original switch. Those wires were just sitting off to the side, disconnected.
After a few minutes, I switched over from the fuse to a 30-amp circuit breaker, and wired everything to the start key. For now, everything works once the key is turned... off. (I am using a two-position key, as there is no point for a three-way key with a start button).
Next on the agenda was taking the key switch apart (carefully, as it is cast steel and plastic/nylon). Yup, wrong type. This type is more for something along the line of a lock-out key. I looked at the offending part, and decided that with some careful work, I could probably dremel out the correct position out of the incorrect housing. After several tries, I finally dremeled out a copy of the indentation for the conductive barbell-thing, and we could get it to stay closed no matter how hard you jiggle the key.
![]()
Finally, I could finish up. I went back outside, and put the key back in. Everything is very tight once the scuttle is in place--it's a rat maze under there, but at least I don't have wires dangling all over the place. I have been very meticulous about hiding or strapping down any wires I have on the car.
Now the lights all work--headlights, turn signals, brakes, and hazards. The key starts in the right way, and the start button works.
Now all I need before registration (at least what I can think of) is a parking brake, strap down the fuel cell (I know, I still haven't done that yet), and gauges.
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
And a few short clips:
Starting
![]()
First gear, bone stock BP05 engine
|
|
Posted: 08/11/08 12:59 PM
|
|
Back when i was like 13, i used to draw cars and got really into the whole designing thing. At one point i got so into it i decided to build my dream car like this. Unfortunatly my dad never let me and i didnt have any money or tools and knowledge. Really great seeing someone do this, looking at ur build up on those forums is A+ interesting material.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 08/15/08 06:59 AM
|
|
That's exactly what I am trying to get to. Money, tools, and knowledge are not really necessary. With work, a complete Locost could be made for 5000 or less. While that may seem like a lot, you have to realize you don't spend it all at once. The frame costs under 300 bucks from start to finish. Suspension and the donor car are the two most expensive parts, and there are ways to keep those down as well. There are cars that have been build for under 2 grand, after selling off donor car parts.
If using a Miata for a donor, if it has a title, there are people that will ask to buy the frames on our forums. I suspect they are from Spec Miata groups looking for race chassis. We've already done the work stripping it, all they have to do is rebuild. But either way, you can recoup money after stripping the donor. You're not going to use the airbags--I sold one airbag for 125 bucks. You get the idea.
I didn't know anything of this type when I began. I now know how to weld, both MIG and TIG, I'm learning to hand form aluminum, I built an equal-length header, learned about suspension geometry, stripped and rebuilt a wiring harness... the list goes on.
One of the best things about the Locost groups, is the fact that there is so much information available, and for free. I've had guys make parts for me for free, I'm about to bring my car 500+ miles for a meet with a few of the forum guys, and I call a few on a regular basis.
I'm willing to help anyone build a Seven, or any car for that matter, that can get here and bring it back in a weekend. We could work multiple weekends, but the car would not be able to stay here for more than a few days. A pickup truck would be necessary (yours, your dads, a friends, etc), and a frame will fit in any truck. If I drop my suspension and wheels, and was able to pick up the engine, I could fit my car in a truck bed.
I'm located near Cleveland, Ohio, so I'm East-coast oriented, I have both MIG and TIG welders, and everything needed to build a frame short of a chopsaw. You would have to bring a chopsaw, otherwise everything would have to be done with an angle grinder or a very rickety bandsaw, either which would require some grinding, but it's not a major deal, just slows the process.
Tubing is cheap here--14-gauge 1" square tubing was $1.00 per foot last time I checked, you need around 150-200 feet total for the car, probably only about 120 for the basic frame sans the rear subframe.
You can complete the majority of the chassis without a donor car. You leave out the engine bay parameters, and the engine mounting points until you have the donor, along with the rear suspension points. I think with 3 or 4 people, a chopsaw, and all the necessary tubing and stuff already on hand, a frame could be completed in a 3-day weekend.
Anyone interested can contact me through my LocostUSA.com information--that emails me directly if I am PMed, or private message me here, which I check periodically.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 09/09/08 12:10 PM
|
|
A few weekends ago, we had a Locost meet in Lexington. Nothing big, two functional cars, held at the house of one of the guys with a half-built car, and about 11-12 people.
I rented a F150, borrowed a trailer, and embarked on the 7-hour trip there, picking up another guy from the forum on the way. (Side note: I drive a Mini Cooper S. This is the first time I've driven a large truck a long distance... with a trailer. Overall length: Three Mini's and then some )
![]()
![]()
Stretching it's legs for the first time:
![]()
Now I am finally working on the bodywork. Definately a steep learning curve, to consider I'm completely new at metalworking, other than welding. I picked up a cheap english wheel at Harbor Freight and modified it a little
Midget Gallows:
![]()
I'm finally satisfied with the shape of the buck--the first was too long, the second too short and too sharp of a drop, but this one is going to be able to not only portrait the rakish nose I wanted, but also have a large enough opening in the front (I hope). I'm still thinking of adding a small duct below it, somewhat like a F-16, later. We'll see how it comes out.
Trial and Error:
![]()
Current version:
![]()
![]()
Well, back to the grind (literally). I want to get another 6-8 ribs on the top and 3-5 on the bottom, plus I have to layer 3-4 pieces of plywood behind the front panels, and then grind them down to shape the edge of the nose, and the curvature of the opening for the intake.
P.S. Other people like driving it too ![]()
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 09/11/08 04:55 PM
|
|
There's not a ton to say... I got more work done on the nose cone, the end is shaped, now I just need to add a few more ribs.
it looks off-centered because it initially was too narrow. The center is actually between the two middle ribs, but from the front it looks odd.
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
|
|
Posted: 09/27/08 10:04 AM
|
|
That looks insanely fun to drive.
|
SteyrTMP
New User
| Posts: 28
| Joined: 06/08
Posted: 10/04/08 12:38 AM
|
|
It is. Even with the bone stock engine with around 100-115whp, it's loads of fun. It doesn't take much to get the tires howling for mercy... the only problem currently is that it has terminal understeer. I have to do some weight distribution, and some adjustments here and there; it currently has no sway bars, and the turbo setup is going to add some weight up front.
I haven't been doing too much lately--next week I will be going to Illinois for the Metal Meet '08, an international get together of metal shapers from all over the world. The who's who of custom body work and the like will all be there. I really look forward to meeting Dick Bear, the guy that built his own McLaren Can-Am car. He's now starting on a scratch build of a Formula 1 car...
I hope to have at least some of the bodywork finished when I come back from there, along with some knowledge to boot.
|
|
|
|