lets get some  str8 - Import Tuner Forums at Import Tuner Magazine

lets get some str8

  
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lets get some [censored] str8

 
Orpheus1985 Orpheus1985
Enthusiast | Posts: 412 | Joined: 01/06
Posted: 04/05/06
10:19 PM

Well this particular thread seems to be over.  The moron who started it seems to have gotten his panties straightened out.  

 
go_sei go_sei
New User | Posts: 37 | Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/05/06
11:45 PM

yeah lol. i was just about to say that all the interesting heat died down. ^_^

i like imports and i really didnt appreciate that guy's comments about them. sure some makes are cheap but everyone has to start off somewhere, right?  

 
Drifter_Tim Drifter_Tim
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 09/05
Posted: 04/06/06
08:22 AM

I think I can help you with this. I have done quite a bit of extensive research on forced induction systems (I've even written a thesis paper for my college english paper about the benefits and setbacks of using such systems).

Basically, a turbocharger is used as a means of foced induction, forcing more air/fuel into the block, and thus resulting in boost pressure and creating more power. This process increases an engine's power output or fuel efficiency. However, you lose the numbers in mpg. This is due to the fact that you need more air/fuel supplied. This results in a loss to the fuel economy, also known as the mpg.

To counter this, and to balance out the car's fuel efficiency and fuel economy, as well as ensure the stability and drivability, other parts are changed. Examples being injectors, exhaust, ecu tuning, engine internals, etc etc.

From what I would think, you double the displacement. But then again after some thought, doesn't displacement dictate the specific amount of air/fuel ratio that the engine is sized up for? I had originally thought the displacement was the measure for the engine block's amount of air/fuel it can hold, like its limit. What I mean is, and this is my question, does the displacement really change by adding the turbo? If anyone can clear that up for me I'd appreciate it. Thanks!   I hope I was somewhat helpful with this information.  

 
cj1977 cj1977
Guru | Posts: 755 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 04/06/06
10:33 AM

Quote:

V8's? Time over? I doubt it, in case you didn't notice the muscle car is coming back Charger, Magnum, SRT8 jeep, GTO, GM is bringing back the Camaro in a couple of years, along with Dodge bring back the Challenger. Waste of gas, your crazy, I've got a V8 that gets 26 miles to the gallon and will smoke probably 98% of all the cars on this forum.




Noob/troll, STFU or tell us what you drive.  I do not think your truck can do the same things my SR20DET powered 240sx can do.  

 
Orpheus1985 Orpheus1985
Enthusiast | Posts: 412 | Joined: 01/06
Posted: 04/06/06
11:00 AM

haha noobtroll, I like that  

 
KATwo40sx KATwo40sx
Enthusiast | Posts: 521 | Joined: 02/06
Posted: 04/06/06
12:54 PM

Quote:

I think I can help you with this. I have done quite a bit of extensive research on forced induction systems (I've even written a thesis paper for my college english paper about the benefits and setbacks of using such systems).

Basically, a turbocharger is used as a means of foced induction, forcing more air/fuel into the block, and thus resulting in boost pressure and creating more power. This process increases an engine's power output or fuel efficiency. However, you lose the numbers in mpg. This is due to the fact that you need more air/fuel supplied. This results in a loss to the fuel economy, also known as the mpg.

To counter this, and to balance out the car's fuel efficiency and fuel economy, as well as ensure the stability and drivability, other parts are changed. Examples being injectors, exhaust, ecu tuning, engine internals, etc etc.

From what I would think, you double the displacement. But then again after some thought, doesn't displacement dictate the specific amount of air/fuel ratio that the engine is sized up for? I had originally thought the displacement was the measure for the engine block's amount of air/fuel it can hold, like its limit. What I mean is, and this is my question, does the displacement really change by adding the turbo? If anyone can clear that up for me I'd appreciate it. Thanks!   I hope I was somewhat helpful with this information.




Adding a turbocharger does not increase the displacement of the engine.  To help you understand this concept, I'll give you a short tutorial on VE (volumetric efficiency), which by definition is:  Volume of air that actually enters the cylinder, in contrast to the volume of air that should theoretically enter the cylinder.  

Some standalone EMS fuel tables are labeled as VE tables, but it's a different usage of the term in that form.  For the remainder of this discussion, I'll refer to VE in it's true definition, which I described in the above paragraph.

Corky Bell states that a SOHC, 2 valve engine will operate around 85% VE, whereas a DOHC 4 valve engine will operate around 95% VE.  However, recent testing data reveals that VE can actually exceed 100% on a N/A engine, because of engineered harmonic resonance causing a scavenging effect, and well-engineered cams with perfect valve overlap.  If you wish to find a nice example of this, take a dive into the workings of the "expansion chamber" on a 2-cycle dirtbike or snowmobile engine.

Now, take the turbocharger into account.  It does not increase the volume of air into an engine.  It increases air density, via compression.  Think in terms of an actual shop air compressor.  You have a 10 gallon tank, right?  Now, stuff it with 100psi of air and what do you have...a 10 gallon tank.  Same concept with an engine using forced induction.

Forced induction is all about moving air in lbs/min (density), rather than CFM (volume).

Now, look a little deeper into the structure of the turbocharger.  It's a restriction placed in the exhaust stream, which causes backpressure in the exhaust manifold.  This backpressure results in a high pressure differential across the turbine wheel.  Since pressure demands equalization, the gas passes through the turbine area and across the wheel at a higher than normal velocity, increasing as engine exhaust output increases.  Now, we have a turbine wheel spooling up, which also spools the compressor wheel, thus resulting in a denser air charge being forced into the engine, forcing the cyle to repeat itself.  Simple, right?

Not quite.  Now that there's a restriction in the exhaust stream, the scavenging designs that would normally be used to obtain maximum VE have been negated.  Conversely, the turbocharger has actually DECREASED the engine's VE.

Still yet, the air charge is much more dense than it would have been in N/A form, resulting in more combustible content in the cylinder.

Taking that into account, along with other variables, such as intake air temperature increases as a result of compression, will help understand why doubling the atmospheric pressure at the intake manifold does NOT provide double the power.

I hope this helps.  

 
Orpheus1985 Orpheus1985
Enthusiast | Posts: 412 | Joined: 01/06
Posted: 04/06/06
01:02 PM

jeez, this guy knows his stuff.  We should have a new Thread Heading called "KATwo and 2GNT's Stickies"  

 
STREETxJOHN STREETxJOHN
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/06/06
03:33 PM

dude. it really sounds like you don't know what the [censored] your talking about. i suggest that you should shut the [censored] up if you don't know anything. go to other forums. everyone's gonna give you the same exact response that this crowd did. so go home.

ps. everyone is hatin on you  

 
GMguyNOmore GMguyNOmore
New User | Posts: 16 | Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/06/06
07:18 PM

Quote:

V8's? Time over? I doubt it, in case you didn't notice the muscle car is coming back Charger, Magnum, SRT8 jeep, GTO, GM is bringing back the Camaro



 I'm betting oil tycoons love people who think like you.

Quote:

You can't expect to put a big ass turbo on your 4 cylinder engine (that gets 25mpg) and expect it to keep getting 25mpg. There is no doubt that your mpg will go up, but by the time you get 400hp out of your turbo 4 will the mpg really be any less than an ls1?



 I'm guessing (maybe I'm wrong, but...)the guys on here who do have 400HP turbocharged 4-cylinder engines don't use them as daily drivers so I'm betting that MPG isn't really a concern to them.  Hell, if I could afford a buildup on a four-cylinder that made 400HP, I don't think I'd be concerned with gas prices either.  But if you're one of these guys that buys a new Charger, Mustang, Camaro, Vette ect. and it's your daily driver... sucks to be you, see ya at the pump... as we're driving buy not buying gas.  

 
Orpheus1985 Orpheus1985
Enthusiast | Posts: 412 | Joined: 01/06
Posted: 04/06/06
07:25 PM

Quote:

the guys on here who do have 400HP turbocharged 4-cylinder engines don't use them as daily drivers




:thumbup:  

 
2GNTEclipse 2GNTEclipse
Guru | Posts: 1007 | Joined: 11/99
Posted: 04/07/06
11:51 PM

Well, until I bought my VW Golf a little while back, I was running my MR2 as my daily. That pretty much sucked. :P  

 
66gmc_ 66gmc_
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/09/06
09:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

the guys on here who do have 400HP turbocharged 4-cylinder engines don't use them as daily drivers




:thumbup:



I love imports.  

 
speedaddict speedaddict
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 04/06
Posted: 04/10/06
03:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

V8's? Time over? I doubt it, in case you didn't notice the muscle car is coming back Charger, Magnum, SRT8 jeep, GTO, GM is bringing back the Camaro in a couple of years, along with Dodge bring back the Challenger. Waste of gas, your crazy, I've got a V8 that gets 26 miles to the gallon and will smoke probably 98% of all the cars on this forum.




Noob/troll, STFU or tell us what you drive.  I do not think your truck can do the same things my SR20DET powered 240sx can do.




Truck? Who said I had that? You wanna roll rice boy? We can take it up on the track! I drive an 01 ws6, and it sure as hell insn't stock. You wanna take it up on pinks ricer?  

 
cj1977 cj1977
Guru | Posts: 755 | Joined: 10/04
Posted: 04/10/06
04:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

V8's? Time over? I doubt it, in case you didn't notice the muscle car is coming back Charger, Magnum, SRT8 jeep, GTO, GM is bringing back the Camaro in a couple of years, along with Dodge bring back the Challenger. Waste of gas, your crazy, I've got a V8 that gets 26 miles to the gallon and will smoke probably 98% of all the cars on this forum.




Noob/troll, STFU or tell us what you drive.  I do not think your truck can do the same things my SR20DET powered 240sx can do.




Truck? Who said I had that? You wanna roll rice boy? We can take it up on the track! I drive an 01 ws6, and it sure as hell insn't stock. You wanna take it up on pinks ricer?




If thats what you need to race RWD turbocharged 4 cyl sure but I call the shot since you are asking.  You come to Kansas and he can do a all out "time attack" around speed cones but I know you are bulls_hittin' about the WS6.  I do not think you have one. By the way, you late model T/A was built in Canada-not even by Americans and half the parts come from Mexico.  That is so sad-given its fast but it's nothing but a straight line performer who needs to upgrade to compete against a 4 cyl 2.0lt engine.  So what modifications do you have?  Did you do all of your modifications?  What type of exhuast do you have?  Who makes your aftermarket cams shafts?  Do you do your own tuning?  What sort of tires are you running?  Do you use synthetic or partial synthetic oil?  Did you fund your own ride?  

 
tjamz tjamz
New User | Posts: 34 | Joined: 10/05
Posted: 04/11/06
05:47 AM

Quote:

You can't expect to put a big ass turbo on your 4 cylinder engine (that gets 25mpg) and expect it to keep getting 25mpg. There is no doubt that your mpg will go up, but by the time you get 400hp out of your turbo 4 will the mpg really be any less than an ls1? I think I've found something to research...




I took a car that had a 227 HP (Crank) and modded it to the point of getting 310 HP (Wheels....approx 400 at the crank...subaru automatic=huge drivetrain loss @ nearly 30%) and 352 Wheel Torque.  When I bought my car I seldom EVER hit 22mpg, now that I have done the mods I get 22-24 mpg in town and up to 30 on the highway.  Why?  I can customize my fuel/timing/boost maps and have one set aside for economy driving and another for track days, all at the push of a button (takes 1 second to change).  

 
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